Why Julia Turshen Opens Up Her Kitchen to the World Every Sunday
Week after week, julia opens her kitchen to the world…
Since 2021, cookbook author and cooking teacher Julia Turshen has logged into Zoom practically every Sunday to cook with eager home cooks from around the world.
Once a temporary replacement for book tour demos during the pandemic, Sunday cooking classes are now a key pillar of Julia’s week. She’s swapped random makeshift demo kitchens for her comfortable and familiar kitchen in her Hudson Valley farmhouse.
And in Julia’s words, “I went from enjoying those [cooking demos] the least to enjoying those the most.”
In this episode, Julia shares all the details about how she started her journey teaching cooking online, valuable lessons learned, plus surprising insights she’s discovered along the way.
I can’t wait for you to hear all that Julia has to share!
Links from this episode
Read Julia’s piece in Bon Appetit, A Home for Queer Domestic Life Every Sunday on Zoom.
Visit Julia’s website and check out her upcoming classes!
Watch our new free masterclass to learn how to create an online culinary business!
Sign up for my FREE Culinary Roadmap and learn how to start a flexible and fulfilling online business.
Say hello to Cynthia on Instagram → @culinarycynthia!
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Julia Turshen: Quite frankly, none of it's actually about the food. Who do you wanna spend time with? And who do you wanna learn from?
Cynthia Samanian: Hello, friends! Now I'm gonna kick things off with a quick warning here. I have zero chill,, as the kids say, about this episode. There's no chill at all. Maybe you can hear it in my voice. I am beyond excited because reaching out to this guest for this interview has been on my podcast bucket list for a really long time.
But I finally did it. I sent that email and here we are today. Julia Turshen is here on the podcast. Again, can you hear the excitement in my voice?
Now I first discovered Julia back in 2016 through her cookbook, Small Victories. After hearing her speak at a signing in San Francisco , I knew that I found someone who I wanted to keep learning from in the kitchen. Her style is approachable, it's encouraging, not to mention her recipes work, especially for busy home cooks like myself. I have to say, her turkey ricotta meatballs are a family favorite in our house. We make them practically every month.
In addition to being a New York Times bestselling cookbook author, Julia is also the founder of Equity at the Table, an inclusive digital directory for women and non-binary individuals in food. I am a proud member and invite you to join if this sounds like you.
Cynthia Samanian: So our conversation actually took place back in September, so late September 2022 and I was a little worried that things would change significantly since then, but actually it hasn't. Julia is still teaching online classes week after week.
I can't wait for you to hear how she got started with her online classes and even more, how it's grown to be a really important pillar of her life at home, her culinary business, and basically everything in between.
Let's talk to Julia.
Cynthia Samanian: Hi, Julia, welcome to the podcast.
Julia Turshen: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to talk to you about this.
Cynthia Samanian: Awesome. Yeah. I don't know how many podcast interviews you've done that have been totally focused on teaching online. As you know, our listeners are all in the culinary industry and they are looking to teach online and a lot of them already have. So we're gonna dive into that. But before we do that, I would love for you to try and sum up your background, in a few minute intro. I, we could do a whole episode on your background, but how do you describe who you are and what you do today in the food world?
Julia Turshen: Sure. Um, first I'll just say, I think this is the first podcast interview I've ever done that's specifically about teaching online and I'm so happy about that because I love doing it and I'm so excited to talk about it. So I just wanna state that for the record . Uh, so my background is, and what I'm doing now to make it really short, I, uh, grew up in New York.
I grew up in a household, uh, where there was actually not that much cooking done at home, but I always, always, always loved to cook and felt I can only describe it like a magnet drawn to the kitchen. It's where I always wanted to be. My parents both worked in the publishing industry, so I always like to mention that because I had very early exposure to media, um, to people making things like books and magazines.
Press fast forward, I studied writing in college. I didn't go to culinary school, but continued to just love cooking, love food. Early in my career I sort of did half and half. I mean I did a million things, but kind of half and half working with other people on their cookbooks and then also actually working as a private chef.
And then I was able to start working on my own cookbooks, and I've gotten to do a few of my own and continued to do collaborative work and nine years ago. Yeah, a little over nine years ago, I met Grace, who I'm now married to, and a year or two after that, we moved from New York City to the Hudson Valley where we live now.
And in March, 2021, I put out my last cookbook that I've done called Simply Julia and that was the 15th cookbook I had worked on in as many years, not on my own, you know, including collaborative ones. And I honestly was just really burnt out from publishing, even though that book was a fantastic experience.
The promotion of that book actually is what opened my eyes to teaching classes online, which, you know, I'm sure we'll talk more about. Before I started teaching online regularly, um, I spent a full season, so, which was like seven months working full time at a vegetable farm. That was a fun little bar. And uh, yeah, now I'm teaching online every week and I have a newsletter and yeah, still have my hand in a few different pots on the stove.
Cynthia Samanian: Yeah. So what I caught from that is you left the city way before Covid. Yes. Probably felt good to be in your farmhouse.
Julia Turshen: Yeah, we in hindsight had pretty incredible timing. We had already lived here for years and, you know, really knew our community and our neighbors, which was and continues to be so wonderful and essential. And just felt very settled here and I'm very, very grateful for that.
Cynthia Samanian: So you said you had worked on 15 cookbooks in 15 years, which, uh, I think we do have some people listening who have worked on cookbooks and understand that that is insane.
You're like, I still am processing the emotion of that period of my life.
But let's talk about, uh, let's just move right into it. Let's move right into the promotion of your last cookbook.
And you talked about how you started to look kind of into the online world for that. 2021. So I'm guessing that's because you probably couldn't tour and do the normal types of demos that you usually would, Is that right?
Julia Turshen: Mm-hmm. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So, previous to that book I had the privilege of going on a number of book tours which not every author gets to do. And I really, um, I'm so grateful for those experiences. I got to go to like so many cool places and meet amazing people and people who care as much about cooking as I do, you know, who show up for a cookbook then?
Cynthia Samanian: That was me by the way. I went to your Small Victories cookbook tour in San Francisco.
Julia Turshen: Oh my gosh. At Omnivore?
Cynthia Samanian: Yeah.
Julia Turshen: Amazing. I know you from Equity at the Table and stuff and like.
Cynthia Samanian: I'm totally fan girling right now.
Julia Turshen: Well, thanks for coming. I appreciate that. How wonderful is that store? It's so incredible.
Yeah, so I got to do stuff like that. Meet people like you, like it was amazing. And the one part of book promotion that I always kind of dreaded was doing cooking demos. And I say that with the disclaimer that I understand what a privilege it is to get to book tour, um, to get to go to places to demonstrate recipes from your book, to have people show up. I mean, that's like an incredible opportunity. I just, and they made me really nervous and that's why I dreaded them because I was nervous. They made me really anxious. I would basically be in a kitchen somewhere far away from my home. A kitchen I didn't know. I never cooked in. And then I'm standing there making food and everyone's just sitting there watching.
And I just always felt so awkward and it felt like a performance and I am not a performer, like those are not my skills. So yeah, fast forward to March 21 and when my book came out, all the promotion was online. It was like the year anniversary of kind of lockdown. You know, I think some people, like my parents, my grandmother were vaccinated. Not everyone was vaccinated yet and just in-person events were. I mean, I think maybe some were happening. I just definitely didn't feel safe doing them. My spouse is immunocompromised. But um, yeah, we did everything online and then all of a sudden those demos became these more like cook along classes because not everyone was just sitting, watching me cook in person. They were also at home, so they could be in their kitchens. And I went from enjoying those the least to enjoying those the most. And I just had so much fun doing it. You know, I got to be in my kitchen, the place where I'm just my happiest. I know it.
Cynthia Samanian: Yeah.
Julia Turshen: I know where everything is, even though no one else does. I know where everything is. Um, you know, it's the place I just feel like literally at home and I got to kind of invite everyone into my home. Also, I didn't have to actually have anyone in my home. The thing that I continue to think is just so cool about it is not just my own comfort level, but the fact that everyone is cooking in their own kitchen.
So the place they feel comfortable, they feel at home. Or honestly maybe they don't feel that comfortable or at home, but they want to. And in doing it this way over Zoom, I actually get to be a much more effective teacher because I've had so many moments where people are like, that thing you said to do it's not working.
And I'm like, okay, let me see what's happening. Bring your phone over to the cutting board. Or you know, I'm chopping something, and someone's like, mine doesn't look like yours. And so I'm like, well what knife are you using? And you know, they're using a paring knife and I'm using a serrated knife and they can't get through the tomato.
And you know, so we talk about it. But it's just, it's so much more useful and I think having the embodied experience of cooking together, not just watching someone cook.
Cynthia Samanian: Mm-hmm.
Julia Turshen: You know, I've thought about when I've learned to do things or gotten more comfortable doing things. Like I mentioned, I worked at the farm last year. If I had just read a book about farming, that would've been really different then showing up in person and farming together and someone showing me how to do it and I do it with them. I learned so much faster. So it's really nice to be able to just offer that.
Cynthia Samanian: Yeah and when you went into these demos that became cooking classes, what were your preconceived notions about what it would mean to do an online demo?
Julia Turshen: Sure. I mean, I had very few preconceived notions because I had never participated in one as a teacher or as a student. Um, I've taken online courses before. I've, you know, online lecture kind of thing. Like I had a sense of that, but this kind of cooking thing. Um, I had no idea.
So in that way it kind of felt very open. I think not having a preconceived notion sometimes can be a little scary. Like what's this gonna be? But it's also like there's a lot of opportunity to that.
And I've heard you talk about this before that it's with that openness, like you get to just figure it out, for yourself, like make it what you want it to be. The thing I really didn't expect that has been so surprising, which I'm more than happy to talk about, is the financial end of things. And what really opened my eyes to teaching regularly was, you know, I started doing it to promote a book, and not to get too into it, but book promotion is the time in like a book process that you're sort of the busiest. Doing a million things, but you're actually not making any money. You're trying to sell this product,
Cynthia Samanian: after you spent months putting your head into it, it's probably the last thing you wanna talk about at that point. Right?
Julia Turshen: I'm like, this is old news. No, no. It's like wonderful to talk about, but it's a lot of pressure, I would say. And it also is just, you're just day to day in the time of promotion, you're very, very busy, but you're not earning any money. You've already earned an advance on your book, and then you're trying to sell it to hopefully earn out that advance.
So it's just this really interesting time as a, uh, someone doing the, you know, the labor and the promotion.
Cynthia Samanian: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.
Julia Turshen: And when I was promoting my book, I had the opportunity to plug into some existing kind of online cooking schools and to do classes with them because it was a great way to promote my book. You know, I got to plug into their audiences. Yeah. Who are people who love cooking at home? And I did one, I think it's fine to name it. I don't see why now, but I did one with Milk Street, um, which is great. Very like amazing. And they have an incredible community and mailing list. And I was like, Oh my gosh, it would be incredible to promote my book with you because you're reaching all these people that I don't reach on my own.
And they gave me like a small stipend for teaching the class, which honestly I was thrilled about because you make no money when you're promoting your book. And this says way more about them than me, but they were able to get hundreds of people to sign up for my class. You know, they have such a robust mailing list.
And so I taught the class. I had so much fun. I go into the next room because Grace, the thing that Grace does during all my classes is, uh, Grace tries to keep our pets quiet.
Cynthia Samanian: Very important job.
Julia Turshen: Yeah, no, super important. So I go into the next room. Grace has like managed to keep the dogs quiet and the dogs from fighting with the cat.
And I was like that was so much fun. And Grace was like, that's great. And I was like, and guess what? They gave me like a few hundred bucks to teach the class. And Grace was like, okay, good for you. And then she was like, hey. They, uh, sold tickets to the class, right? And I was like, oh yeah, and Grace was like, how much were the tickets?
And anyway, we did the math and I was like, oh, they just made so much money. Like so much money. And then I said to Grace, I was like, well, maybe they'll let me teach another class. Like that would be great. And Grace was like, just do it on your own. And so that's how it all started. So yeah, the money side of things has been incredibly surprising and, um, great, like really great.
Cynthia Samanian: Absolutely. I've talked to some other people about platforms like Milk Street and the challenge is to attract the crowd, right? And the fact that they're able to do that, like you said, says a lot about what they, um, are able to do and their strengths. But at the end of the day, you're the talent and so if you can bring people to you directly, what a great financial opportunity.
Julia Turshen: Yeah, I also just wanna say like, they've had me back. We have a nice relationship. I think they're great.
Cynthia Samanian: We love you Milk Street. Yes. So, that was back in 2021. Right? So here we are. The end of 2022 and you're still teaching on Sundays.
Julia Turshen: Yeah. Unless I'm out of town or it's a holiday, um, sometimes I do holiday themed classes, but pretty much, I would say 80 to 90% of Sundays I'm teaching a class from my home kitchen.
So it started being like a regular thing on Sundays at the beginning of 2022. Um, at the end of 2021, I was still working at the farm and I started doing classes here and there, like when I had a day off or something. And it, it just felt like this fun thing to do in a way to sort of extend my book tour a little bit and also just earn some extra income.
And then, it was the holidays, the farm season was over and I just thought, what, what am I doing with my life? And you know, that just little question
But then I just thought, you know, I'm having so much fun with these classes. Like, let me, let me try making this a regular thing.
And for me, committing to once a week felt like the right number for me, and I think that is different for everyone, depending on a number of variables. But for me, it felt like something I could definitely commit to. It didn't feel overwhelming, but it also felt enough to, uh, be sort of consistent and be reliable, I would say.
And it's become this just phenomenal, just for me personally, like this anchor in my week, like I know what I'm doing every Sunday and everything kind of revolves around that for me.
Cynthia Samanian: And Grace is on board.
Julia Turshen: So, well, a big thing was before I started doing it regularly, Grace used to moderate the chat for me in addition to keeping our pets quiet.
So Grace would also sign into Zoom, and then this way I'm not looking at the chat while I'm teaching. And if people had questions for the most part, Grace could answer them because it was usually, you know, it tends to be questions about things that are in the recipe. And I've already provided the recipe, or someone will ask like, what brand of olive oil is Julie using? And because Grace also lives in this house, like Grace knows, so Grace would put in a link. So that allowed me to be really present when I was teaching and also if there's a question I needed to answer, Grace would just say like, hey, you know, Cynthia has a question, like answer Cynthia's question, you know?
Um, so when it became a regular thing, Grace and I decided if this was gonna be like my job. Um, our, like we have two rules in our marriage. One is like no one goes on a ladder by themselves and the other is that we will never work together like
Cynthia Samanian: Literally a ladder. Like that's not metaphor.
Julia Turshen: No, no.
Cynthia Samanian: Like farmhouse, farmhouse problems.
Julia Turshen: No, it's dangerous. Yeah. Um, it just makes me really nervous. So, yeah. So, um, anyway, I hired someone to moderate the chat. I, and I found Haley. Haley's incredible. We met via Instagram and I actually just put up something in my Instagram story saying, I can't remember exactly, but you know, I'm gonna teach classes regularly. I need some help during class with the chat, like, is anyone interested? And I got like a few responses. I interviewed people. Such like wonderful people. It was like really incredible. And there was something just immediately about Haley that I was like, oh, you're the one. And honestly, I think it's now it's worked out so well and she's been with me for every class and she is such a great support.
And I think the thing that I picked up on immediately that has been just the through line is, I mean, she is so warm and welcoming and you know, my classes are I'm literally, as I mentioned before, inviting everyone into my home and even though Haley and I are in different places, she's in Des Moines, Iowa. I'm in the Hudson Valley in New York. You know, she's not in my home, but she feels to me like part of my home and she welcomes people. And when we talked about what her role was, I was like, I imagine every Sunday class is I'm having everyone over for dinner, and you're the friend who's with me who's like, make sure that everyone when they come through the door has a drink. Knows where to put their coat, like that kind of thing. That spirit. And she's got it. And she's also a chef and she has a great basis of knowledge when it comes to cooking and we have similar taste in food. So when people are like, oh, do you think this would go well with that? You know, Haley can answer that and doesn't need to stop my teaching.
So anyway, to answer your question about what happens on Sundays. So if anyone's interested in the class and I get the word out mostly through my newsletter and social media. So people sign up and when you sign up, I use a platform called Momence. I'm happy to go into as many details as you want about this stuff, but, um, they automatically send a confirmation email that I've attached a PDF to and that PDF is something I've spent time creating and it includes the recipes that are gonna be in that class, and also a grocery list, organized by departments of the grocery store. It has the Zoom link there, all the information, all the like FAQs about class, like what to expect if you've never been to class. It's all there. So you have that ahead of time. My contact information's there if you run into anything.
And then they get another automated email. I think it's an hour before class, like with the link and then everyone shows up. And I always do the same little spiel. I ask everyone to stay muted. Just so they can hear me but if you have a question, you can interrupt me. You know, that kind of stuff. And, um, then we just get into it and I make all the recipes, from start to finish. I plan the classes so that I can make everything in the hour and a half that I allot for the class.
Sometimes I go a little bit over every now and then. Like, if I'm making a cake and there's a frosting and that cake has to be cool for the frosting to go on, I'll make one cake ahead of class. Like I'll show everyone the batter and then, you know, poor me, I'm left with two cakes. Like, it's fine.
But for the most part, I really try to make menus or, you know, groups of recipes that can be done in the time so people can see start to finish what goes into making something. I usually do a menu and I talk about ways you can repurpose things during the week or you can reheat things because some people have it for Sunday dinner, but some people do it as kind of like meal prep and you know, people come for all different reasons. Some people just watch and then make things later.
Cynthia Samanian: How is that for you? Because a lot of the people that I work with and people who teach online, they're like, ugh their cameras are off.
Julia Turshen: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Samanian: They're not cooking along. And it, it kind of goes back to that feeling you had of you're performing and everyone's watching you.
Julia Turshen: Mm-hmm. Sure. It's a really good question. So the way I set it up is, I know you've had Caroline Chambers on, I owe her an email. I'll say this out loud here, but I should probably tell her she did. Um, she used to use a platform teaching that I started using Airsubs, but it shut down.
Cynthia Samanian: RIP
Julia Turshen: It was so great. I miss it. It was really so good. Um, but she did like a little. I don't know. I watched the recording of it, kind of like a little class for people who wanted to teach and she was so informative, um, including like this piece of equipment, which is just like a thing that clamps to your counter that you can put your phone on.
And it's really easy to, I'm showing you, but no one can see me. But you can adjust your phone so people can see you or you can turn it and they can see your cutting board. I think it's like $10 or $15. So I have that. It's in front of me and I just, so I use a single camera so I can talk to it, but I can also turn it so you can see my cutting board. You can see how I'm chopping something or mixing something. But then underneath that I have my laptop and I put it on gallery view, so I can see everyone. And I would say, on average, probably half the people in my class keep their camera on and probably half don't. And when it's in gallery view, I don't see the people who don't have their cameras on. So, and it's important to me to have that screen in front of me just so I don't feel like I'm just talking to myself, um, so that I'm seeing people and yeah, I'm lucky that enough people keep their cameras on that I'm seeing some faces. I always see Haley, my parents, my grandmother. My grandmother lives down the street from my parents. They always tune in and watch, which is like so sweet. And my mother-in-law comes to all my classes and they're all just watching, so I know there's always gonna be like a friendly face. And I just, you know, as long as like I can see one person, I'm good. I feel like I'm in good company. So I try not to think about what's going on with people who don't have their cameras on, I guess, I don't, I've never really thought about it till now.
Cynthia Samanian: Okay. Don't think about it, forget that question!
Julia Turshen: But in terms of the people who are sitting there just watching and not cooking, it's fine because I feel like they are, you know, I know that I like to kind of see things sometimes before I do them. I know a lot of people read my cookbooks and never cook from them. Like, that's fine, but I, I still see them and they're paying attention. And it seems to me they wanna be there, so that makes me feel good.
It might feel different for me if no one was cooking. There's always at least a few, and it's so fun to like, you know, we all pull our cakes out of the oven and like, you know. Or someone's cat walks on their counter and I'm like, oh my God, that cat's so cute. Like, those moments make my day. They just remind me that we're all in these different places, but we're doing the same thing at the same time. And that never fails to amaze me. I think that's just the coolest thing.
Cynthia Samanian: Yeah. And it's really intimate if you think about it. I mean, you are opening up your home kitchen. But I also think from the instructor's point of view, we don't think about the other side.
Julia Turshen: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Samanian: They're opening up,
Julia Turshen: mm-hmm.
Cynthia Samanian: the world into their kitchen and they're probably more self-conscious about it than you are, right?
Julia Turshen: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Samanian: Like Julia's gonna judge my awful spice rack or my knife block or I don't know. Right? And of course you're not, but yeah, I think that's something to think about is it doesn't mean people aren't engaged. It could just be that they are really shy and it's a vulnerable experience to show people your kitchen.
Julia Turshen: Yeah, I mean, I guess I think about it in the way that I used to think about book tour events, whether it was a demo or like just a talk at a bookstore, whatever it was, which is like, to get someone to buy your book is really hard. To then get someone to show up for an event about your cookbook, like what an act of just generosity on the part of that person. I mean, for you to come to Omnivore Books when I was there, I guess that was what, 2016. Like you probably took, you know, time when you could have been doing something else. Like you're in San Francisco, you could be in a million different cool places and you chose to come there and I appreciate every single person who chooses to like voluntarily go on Zoom. Yeah. In the year 2022.
Cynthia Samanian: That's true. That's so true.
Julia Turshen: And you know, a lot of people come with their kids, which I think is wonderful. I was a kid who loved to cook. But there's a lot of people who have to make sure there's childcare available so they can be present for this thing or you know, they've declined another invitation or whatever. Like, I'm really aware that people chose to be there. So whether they have their camera on or not, whether they come live or not, I record all my classes so people can watch them again if they want or watch later if they can't come. Um, you know that anyone just chooses to do that. They've paid money to do that. Like I don't take any of that for granted.
Cynthia Samanian: Every Zoom tile is valued equally.
Julia Turshen: Yeah, totally. Absolutely.
Cynthia Samanian: Yeah, that's a really, really good point. And I think sometimes, especially in the age of social media, we get so hung up on numbers.
Julia Turshen: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Samanian: And I've had this conversation with my students before where they're like, I posted something and I only got 12 likes. Those were 12 people. People, people you don't know most likely. Yeah. Who took time out of their day to tap something and yes, it's a micro thing and it takes seconds, but cool.
Julia Turshen: No, that's a big deal. 12 people's a big deal. Like the event you came to, I remember that night really well. I mean Samin Nosrat interviewed me. It was like my first cookbook. A lot of people showed up. Like that was a really great book event. And I've had book events in person where one person shows up. And that's to me, still an amazing event. And if one person comes to my Zoom class like, whoa, this person chose to cook with me, like that's a big deal. And I also think, I mean, we've all been so warped by like social media numbers and all these numbers in general. Um, but having the opportunity to be together in person like that, or not in person, I keep saying in person, but I mean online because it feels like, it feels like it's in person.
Yeah. Yeah. But to do it like live and to see people's faces and to not have it be this abstract thing, you know, I've worked on books for so long, I've, I've written freelance articles. I put all this work into something that then just goes out into the abyss and to actually be with people and have a shared experience, um, I don't know. I leave all my Sunday classes feeling so energized. I don't feel worn out.
Um, I took August off from teaching mostly because my kitchen gets really hot. Um, I also noticed like during the summer, as the weather got nicer, like less people were coming to class, which totally makes sense.
I think online cooking classes are like the best thing for winter. But um, anyway, I miss them. Yeah, I was like, when is September? I need to get back to my classes. Like I really miss it. So yeah, it's a really just cool experience.
Cynthia Samanian: Yeah. Okay. So I wanna dig a little bit deeper.
Julia Turshen: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Samanian: Because before reaching out to you, I had read the article that you wrote for Bon Appetit.
Julia Turshen: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Samanian: That, uh, I was just blown away by it because I've seen a lot of instructors in this space and I never thought of cooking classes in this way. And I just thought it was such a beautiful piece and one that we'll link to so everyone listening can go read it. The article itself titled A Home for Queer Domestic Life Every Sunday on Zoom.
You talked a lot about the importance of being comfortable and you said, “When I'm comfortable, I feel my queerness more than ever”. So let's talk about that. What does it mean to be queer in the kitchen?
Julia Turshen: Mm-hmm. You know, I, I don't know any other way to be in the kitchen. Yeah. So it's hard for me to say, but I think the way I feel most comfortable, which as you quoted is like the way I feel most queer and most at home, I would say in my queerness is exactly how I feel when I'm cooking. I feel confident. I feel curious. I feel a sense of like, there's so much I, I know and know like firmly, like I can speak to with, um, some trust, you know? And I also know that there's so much, I don't know. That feels so true as much for cooking as it does for me, just being like a queer person.
Like I think for me being a queer person means just having the wherewithal to know that I don't know everything. And there's a million different ways to do things and you can try things in different ways and you don't have to follow conventions and norms. And, um, that is so clear to me in how I cook. I don't think there's a right way to cook anything. I've never felt that. And I just embrace the expansiveness of that.
Cynthia Samanian: Mm-hmm.
Julia Turshen: Whether, you know, in life and relationships and in cooking, so yeah, for me, starting these classes, as we've talked about, it was like very much from a place of my just love of cooking. My love of teaching cooking. Also just, it was like, and continues to be this phenomenal business opportunity and a way to support myself and support my family, and I get to pay Haley and, you know, it's, it's awesome. Yeah. Um, and the more I did it, the more I realized like, oh, there's, there's something going on here.
And in me opening up my home, it's showing everyone who attends what it looks like for just me as a queer person to just live my life and you know, my spouse, Grace, who's non-binary. Grace is walking through the back to get a snack and my mother-in-law's there and my parents are there. And you know, I'm getting to show what that looks like in this very day to day way. And I don't know if it's because of that or I don't, I don't know what, but, I also have a large number of queer couples who come to my class and just queer people. Um, other queer people who just want to cook . Yeah. And want, I think also to feel seen and, um, Haley is also queer. And Haley always, you know, when Haley introduces herself, she always says, I'm Haley. I live in Des Moines with my wife Maggie. She says it every week. And it just makes me so happy. And you know, I wrote about this in the piece, but that moment to me is like, I'm not the only one.
And so the moment Haley introduces herself, it's like, oh, anyone else who's attending, who's part of this community like you are so not alone. In fact, in a way you're sort of part of the majority here in a way that we aren't outside of this space mostly. And for anyone who's attending, who's not part of the queer community you are also so welcome here, but like you are not the main story. And I think there's something really valuable about that.
I also, I thought a lot about online cooking classes and just how accessible they are. You know, I, I'm talking about how much book touring has, uh, kind of inspired this for me, but it's also made me realize how limited book tours are. You know, publishing companies send you to big cities because more people live there.
So what if you don't live in a big city? Or what if you're someone with a physical disability and the bookstore, you know, might not be wheelchair accessible or might not have, you know, the right chair for you or whatever it is. You know, there's all these barriers to entry and doing it online means you get to get rid of a lot of those and people can join from so many places and they can join in whatever way makes them feel most comfortable.
Um, and I think that's so valuable and I think it also means I'm able to reach queer people who don't just live in big cities because just like I do, like queer people live all over the place. And, um, yeah, that has been just a really, really rewarding part of all of this.
Cynthia Samanian: And it sounds like, I think you shared this, but it wasn't something that you set out to, you know, I'm going to build the largest queer online cooking school community.
Julia Turshen: No.
Cynthia Samanian: I mean, it organically took shape in this way. And I love what you said in your article and you talked about it again, you were like, You're not queer. You're welcome. Come hang out. Yeah. But I think you said you're not the default.
That just, I think is gonna resonate with so many people who feel like they're always kind of the exception.
Julia Turshen: Yeah. You know, if you've been part of any marginalized community, like whether you're part of the queer community, uh, you know, it could be anything from race to religion to class, you know, to the size or shape of your body or ability or disability.
Like, I think if you've known what it feels to be other in any way, to enter a space where like you're just not even celebrated, just seen and just like acknowledged, like that's very powerful and I think it's something that we as online cooking instructors, like I think. It's, it's something really cool to embrace because there's a lot of, uh, just humanity in that and yeah, this is a great business. It's a lot of fun, all that stuff. But it's also like, there's room for a lot of connection here and that's pretty incredible.
Cynthia Samanian: So what would you say to someone listening who maybe wants to share more personal side or tap into parts of their life that really are who they are, but they're afraid it's going to limit their audience or turn some people away?
Julia Turshen: I'm having like two opposite reactions to that at the same time, and one is that no one owes anyone any of their personal life in a public place. And I think social media culture and just kind of like celebrity culture in general and media culture in general, we're so geared towards constant sharing and oversharing.
And I think having privacy and having boundaries is really important. And so nothing I share in my classes or my cookbook. Is anything I feel pressured to share or I feel uncomfortable to share. And there's plenty of stuff in my life that I don't share, so I just wanna say that first because I think sometimes there can feel.
This pressure to uh, yeah, to share everything. And like, you don't have to, so you just wanna say that. But I think if there's something you want to share and you're feeling nervous about it, that is different to me. And I feel like that's definitely what you're asking.
Like those aren't people you need in your corner, whatever you're doing, teaching online or doing anything. Like if, if you showing up as your full self or as a part of yourself that you don't normally share. If that dissuades someone, then like, that's not someone you need in your life. And you know, if it means you're getting 12 likes on a post instead of 1200, then that's fine. Like you don't, I can't do the math, but 1200 minus 12, like you don't need those, you know, over a thousand people. . Yeah. Like those 12 people who love seeing you show up as yourself. That is amazing.
And I guess my advice to this question would be something that's been really helpful for me is thinking about who has been that person for you. So I'll just use myself as an example. Like there have been queer women in my life. That's how I identify as a queer woman. There have been queer women in my life who have been there just being themselves, doing their thing at moments when I wasn't totally sure who I was or wasn't totally comfortable necessarily sharing those parts of myself and to be around them and to see them, I think at times have a lot of confidence in themselves and also be fully human and maybe not always confident, but just like to be themselves. That was so major for me. And in moments they probably don't even know. And I've told some of them and some of them have been people I don't know. People who you know, I saw online or whatever it might be. So I think thinking about who those people have been for you and to realize like You just showing up as yourself can do the same for other people, and it doesn't have to be the main topic of what you're selling. I mean, it can be for sure, but like, just as you were saying, like there's not a pride flag being waved at every class I teach. Like literally. I mean, there is like figuratively, but like, you know, I just, I talk about my life. Haley talks about her life and so you feel that, um, and you know, people aren't signing up for a gay cooking class. I mean, it's kind of what you end up getting. But um.
Cynthia Samanian: Is the food the same, like ?
Julia Turshen: It's better.
Cynthia Samanian: Yeah, actually.
Julia Turshen: Um, so I think it's, it's powerful to do. Yeah. And it, I think if you can connect with one other person, I think if you can make one other person feel seen, literally just one other person, like it's, there's so much inherent worth in that. Um, and there's also no pressure. If you're not ready, you're not ready. That's okay.
Cynthia Samanian: Well and you do that with your classes, right? So like a lot of people join who are queer and they've been out. But in the article you mentioned there was someone who was maybe 14?
Julia Turshen: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Samanian: Who had recently come out and like what an experience for them to be in your class and to not feel alone in a moment where they probably felt very isolated.
Julia Turshen: Yeah. No, I think about like when I was 14, if like I could take this cooking class, like as a young kid who loved to cook, um, but, you know, was figuring a lot of stuff out and didn't see myself necessarily represented like what that could have, uh, been like. That would've been really cool. Yeah, I don't think Zoom existed when I was 14.
Cynthia Samanian: No, certainly didn't. And you talked about this a bit, but I'd love to explore it more with you. You, you shared that you're not necessarily the authority in the kitchen. Like Julia messes up, things happen, and that you have an openness where you involve others.
Julia Turshen: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Samanian: …in the cooking process. Was that always your approach? Or was that something that evolved over time?
Julia Turshen: Yeah, the thing I consider myself an expert in is just being a home cook. And the only reason I claim any expertise in that is just because I have a lot of experience doing it. I've been doing it for decades. I've done it for other people as a private chef. I've written books about it. Um, and I do it every day just as a person.
So, it means I have a lot of experience and a lot of knowledge about cooking at home, which is different than cooking in a restaurant or catering or any of those things. It's a different set of skills and it also means I don't always get everything right. Not everything I cook tastes amazing or looks beautiful. And teaching online as opposed to cookbooks lets me, I think more willingly express that. More freely express that. Nobody told me in any cookbook I've worked on, uh, you know, that I couldn't admit that I don't know everything. Like no one was like, don't write that.
But I think publishing a book is a serious thing and I take it really seriously and I'm not as relaxed in my books as I am teaching online and being more relaxed, getting to just feel, it's not that I'm more myself, I'm myself in my books, I'm just like the serious side of myself, but being the slightly goofier side of myself that also exists in my classes, it allows me to just more freely admit like, you know, when someone asks like, how is it gonna taste if I use this instead of that? I can say, I don't know because I haven't made it. But like, if you make it tell us or like, has anyone made it with that? Or, you know, when I get a lot of questions about substitutions, I have a lot of experience with, you know, I'll use gluten-free baking as an example. I've baked a lot of gluten-free things.
I personally do not have celiac disease, so I'm able to eat gluten. But there's a lot of people who take my class who you know, for whatever reason, can't eat gluten and have more experience than I do. And I always say like, hey, does anyone here have an idea they wanna share. And that to me is so wonderful and it doesn't make me feel any less of a quote unquote expert or authority. It makes me feel like I'm part of this cool community and I can create the space where this conversation can happen.
Does it mean I'm any less because I don't know the answer to everything? Absolutely not. It's so cool to have all these people who have different experiences and my head keeps going to baking, but like, I've had classes where people, you know, were making a cake and I'm using all purpose flour and there's 10 other types of flour being used at the same time.
And then we can like talk about it afterwards and you know, someone's didn't rise the same way but it still tastes really good. Or, you know, stuff like that. And I just think that's like exciting. So I don't, Yeah, I don't feel anything negative about that at all. It's like, to me, it's one of the more exciting parts about this medium.
Cynthia Samanian: Thank you for sharing that because I do know a lot of people before they start teaching, they start to think what if they ask me this question and I don't know the answer?
Julia Turshen: Mm-hmm.
Cynthia Samanian: And it's okay to not know the answer. Mm-hmm. And I think that's really important. Yeah. Cause that's like the little voice that some people have.
And I watched the recording of a recent class that you had and I looked at the chat and it was going off like, yeah. It was insane how many messages were being shared. And I have to think that that's part of the community building, why people come back. I mean, I have to imagine friendships have been formed through these classes?
Julia Turshen: I think so. I mean I've got my regulars and I feel like I get to know them. I think it's interesting that I'm not really part of the chat. I read it always afterwards because I think it's really fun, um, but I'm not actively part of it during class cause I can't be in two places at once and I feel like getting to, I don't know, I don't know what it is to be a student in my class, I'm not sure. But I think to be part of a class where you have this space where you guys can all, you know, talk to each other and share stuff and be as respected as the person teaching, I think that's really cool.
And in terms of the not knowing everything, just like a practical thing that's coming to mind is after every class, I send a follow up email to everyone who took class. And there have been many times where I say in class like, I don't know the answer to that. I will find out, like if no one else has the answer, I'll find out. I'll put it in that email. So, you're kind of giving yourself an opportunity to be honest and also follow up. And that also helps to create that relationship. Because I always tell everyone, I send that from my personal email. Reply to the email if you have any questions.
Cynthia Samanian: So let's talk about what's next. Julia with her crystal ball. Where do you think things are going with teaching online?
Julia Turshen: Yeah. My rule for myself is if I stop having fun or if people stop showing up, I'll stop teaching.
And, you know, pretty much a year in neither of those things have happened. I, I don't know, I, I think about this a lot cause I enjoy it so much and there's part of me that's like reluctant to trust it because it's going so well. Um, which probably is something I should talk to my therapist about. But, I keep having the feeling like, I don't know if this is gonna be forever, like 10 years from now. Like, will I be doing this every Sunday?
Part of me feels like probably not, but who knows? I'm open to it. I definitely see another like year of doing it, and then I'll check in. But I don't know, I think that's also just, I'm not, I'm someone who likes to think about lots of things and ideas, but I don't plan too, too far ahead.
I have a lot of privilege in not needing to do that. And uh, so yeah, I'm not totally sure, but I do think that doing cooking classes online is very different than a lot of other classes online. Like I'm someone who really enjoys physical exercise and I pivoted to doing it online during Covid and you know, Covid continues. But you know, some things have changed and I've gone back to exercising in person cause I just didn't like it online as much. And a lot of people, it's amazing. It's, you know, so much more accessible and all those things we talked about with cooking. But for me it just wasn't the same and I didn't enjoy it, uh, exercising.
But I think cooking, there's something really particular about it. Like my joke is always like, this is the only thing I like to do on Zoom. Cook with other people. Um, and so I think there's staying power to it. I think it's a fun activity for people to do. I have this couple who sometimes comes to my class, they're in a long distance relationship and they both take class and they both cook, in their apartments that are states away from each other, and then they get on I don't know FaceTime or Zoom or something, and they eat together. I think things like that are really cool. And yeah, I think cooking classes online will be around. I think they'll be around. Yeah.
Cynthia Samanian: I think it'll be interesting to see how they change, right? Mm-hmm. We've talked about Zoom and that is the norm. And we mentioned a few other platforms that have come and gone. It'll be interesting to see where the tech goes. But without making things too complicated and I loved how you shared how you literally have one camera and your laptop.
Julia Turshen: And it's my phone. Yeah.
Cynthia Samanian: Yeah. Exactly.
And so many people think that they have to get all the fancy lights and all of that. And I'm going to send them to this episode and say, look, this is what Julia's using and it's working and so save your money.
Julia Turshen: I'll say one more practical thing. Just, this might sound silly, but I feel like people who listen to this would probably wanna know this.
I purposely teach at a time when there's natural light in my kitchen, so I don't have to think about lights. And sometimes I do some private classes, like every now and then. It's not the bulk of my business. I probably do like one a month or something. Um, and everyone wants to do those like after work or something and I'll do it and I'm like, Oh, I hate this.
Like I have to put on the overhead lights in my kitchen. I'm also tired. I'm like ready to go to bed. I'm like, you're interrupting my TV time.
Cynthia Samanian: Better be worth it.
Julia Turshen: I mean it's, I've had like amazing people do it. It's great. But I think finding a time that works for you is really important. Like I get a lot of people like, hey, could you do it earlier because I'm on this coast or I'm in this country or later and I'm like, two o'clock on Sunday is perfect for me.
Like it's the right time for me. It's the right time for my household. So you know it's recorded. You can watch it a different time if you want, but this is what works for me. So I think finding a time that works for you and if that time happens to be when there's like good natural light in your space, like all the better.
Cynthia Samanian: Yeah, definitely.
Well, thank you so much, Julia. I have one big question: one piece of advice that you'd give someone who has the culinary skills, has the passion, but they just aren't sure about teaching online. What would you tell them?
Julia Turshen: I would say to start with one class, do it as like a one off. You don't have to set a schedule, You don't have to commit to like a season of classes or weekly or monthly or whatever.
Start with one class, do it for fun and just see if you like it and go from there. And I feel like having the idea of something versus like the experience of actually doing it, they're really different. I would also say, taking some other people's classes and just seeing like different ways people can do it.
Because I think we all approach it really differently and what I've taken away from doing that, I've attended other people's classes is, and I feel the same way about cookbooks, quite frankly, none of it's actually about the food. Who do you wanna spend time with? And who do you wanna learn from?
Because we're all basically teaching the same stuff. I mean, yeah, we're teaching different recipes, but we're teaching cooking. So it's like, whose personality, whose style works for you. I think about being a student in school, like as a kid or in college, there were a lot of professors and like some people love professors I didn't love and I loved professors other people didn't love. And that's fine.
And I think there's room for all of us. And I think finding the person who works for you is great. So I think on the teaching end of it, your people will find you. But I think it's important to know if you enjoy doing it or not, so I would just start with one and it doesn't have to be a big deal. It could even just be like friends and family and do it for free and just set it up and see if you enjoy the process. Because if you don't then there's plenty of other things you can do.
Cynthia Samanian: Well, thank you. That's very good practical advice.
Now where can people find you if people sign up for your classes on Sundays, where should they go?
Julia Turshen: Everything about me, my work, my classes, books, everything is just juliaturshen.com and I send everyone to juliaturshen.com/classes. It has everything you would need to know about my classes and my schedule and signups, and it's all right there one place.
Cynthia Samanian: Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time today.
Julia Turshen: Thank you. Thanks for doing this. It's a great service to all of us, and it's really cool what you do, and I'm happy to be a part of it.
Cynthia Samanian: Okay. That wraps up our conversation with Julia. Isn't she absolutely incredible? I hope you found her advice to be both practical and inspiring as you build an online culinary business that helps you live the life you crave.
Now, if you enjoy this episode, I'd love it if you do one of these things: maybe share it with a friend. Take a screenshot and tag me at Culinary Cynthia on Instagram, or leave a rating and review wherever you're listening.
Finally, if you are looking to take the next step in your online culinary business, then you've got to check out my free masterclass. I'm sharing how to get started, not only with teaching, but also building your online business foundation. They go hand in hand. This masterclass is less than an hour long, and you can watch it anytime. Head on over to theonlinejumpstart.com to check it out. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen today, I'll see you back here next week!
